tv Piers Morgan Live CNN July 3, 2013 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
this is ""piers morgan live."" welcome to our viewers around the world. the muslim brotherhood says president morsy is under house arrest tonight. we'll have more with ivan watson live on the scene. first a day of crucial testimony in the zimmerman trial. the gun. >> that's all someone would need to do to fire a shot, if it was fully loaded? >> yes. >> the hoodie. >> do you know whose blood that was? >> i got a partial dna profile and that matched trayvon martin. >> the dna. >> this would be a buckle swab taken from george zimmerman. >> i'll ask my experts where does the case stand now with the
prosecution winding down the case and the zimmerman trial in black and white. my exclusive with the man that defended o.j. simpson and his trial. he'll tell me whether he thinks zimmerman should take the stand. beginning with martin savidge outside the court live in sanford, florida. martin, another day, another gripping day of what could be vital testimony, the gun, the dna and so on. tell me about what happened today. >> yeah, a lot of forensics, piers. experts and evidence. much of the afternoon talking about dna, specifically whose dna was found where or not found. and the focus became upon the gun. the gun that george zimmerman used to shoot 17-year-old trayvon martin. zimmerman said at one point trayvon was reaching for his gun and my have got a hand on it. so what did the dna testing find? take a listen. >> the dna you got from the
pistol grip of the defendant's gun is positive for gooblood, correct? >> yes. >> and the major matched the defendant, george zimmerman? >> yes. >> and you were able to exclude trayvon martin as having dna on the pistol grip, is that correct? >> yes, trayvon martin was excluded as being a possible contributor to this mixture on the grip. >> simply put, it means trayvon martin's dna was not found on that gun, and that could, of course, hurt the defense. piers? >> yeah, we sort of thought that was the case, but i guess what we saw today was incontinue veritable evidence under oath, likely to have been the case. where are we left then in terms of george zimmerman's claim that his life was at risk? >> yeah, well, you know, we should point out, of course, that the jury here, most of them came in with a limited knowledge of this case. we know it all. we discuss it all every night. they did not know what the dna test results were.
for them this was truly new information. how they digest it and what they get from it remains to be seen. self-defense is still the maintaining issue here that the defense is putting out, and they believe they held up very well despite the very worst that the prosecution has delivered. the prosecution is not quite done, but they are pretty close, piers? >> they aren't quite done but may have their trump card up the sleeve because i saw one of the family attorneys, ben crump on anderson's show now saying it's very likely that trayvon's mother and brother may both give evidence on friday. that could be highly emotional, very difficult to cross examine i would think the mother of a young dead teenager. how effective could that be ending the prosecution's case, a weekend, 48 hours for the jury to think about it and come back? >> extremely powerful and that's probably the way it will play
out. that's what most legal minds have been following here. think of it, the brother and on top of that you have trayvon martin's brother says yes, the voice you hear screaming for help is my son and that's just seconds before he dies. it would be so powerful for that jury to hear it. on top of that, there is nothing the defense can do. they are not about to cross examine a grieving mother, you just simply cannot. that's how the prosecution will end it and most likely let the jury think about it for saturday and sunday, over the weekend, piers. >> right, and the word i think martin is that this could all be over even as early as next week, early part of the week after. so this is coming to a dramatic end. martin savidge, thank you very much indeed. trayvon martin's parents have been sitting in the courtroom listening to testimony about the last moments of their son's lives, but will they take the stand? joining me is natalee. welcome back to you. >> thank you. >> i heard suggestion that it's
likely sybrina fulton and trayvon's brother will take the stand. is that the case? >> there has to be a voice recognition of the screams. with the limited amount of data they have the best person to identify who is screaming on that tape is someone familiar with the voice. >> there has been a lot of criticism from the prosecution and legal experts and you've heard a lot of this, that you haven't collectively established enough incontinue veritable evidence to get a murder charge against george zimmerman. how do you feel as you approach the end of the prosecution? >> i disagree with that. i think they still have closing arguments where they will tie loose ends and have also rebuttaled if the defense puts on a case. so here, the trial isn't over and i think that we haven't seen them tie up loose ends, and i seen some loose ends i know will be tied up in closing. >> it's interesting talking to
martin savidge there, we in the media and indeed you on the legal side have great knowledge of this case. it was probably the first time today that the jury actually heard everydidence from a foren expert there was no trayvon dna on that gun. how significant was that moment in court do you think today? >> i think it's very significant because we also heard evidence there was no george zimmerman dna on trayvon's hands or under his fingernails or on the cuffs of his sleeve and we seen a bloody picture of george zimmerman and no dna of trayvon except for a few spots on george's jacket. the jury will wonder why does trayvon's hands not have dna and why the gun doesn't have dna. >> there is another theray are prosecution case from the very start was destined to fail but you went for the murder charge
because it was more likely that you could then get a lesser conviction of manslaughter. is there any merit to that oo argument? >> i think there is no merit. we heard the star witnesses would be good or jeantel. zimmerman gave five statements. he's the star witness of this case. listen to the non-emergency call he made where by his own admission he categorized trayvon in the group of these a-holes and f-ing punks and trayvon martin was running away from him and he got out of the call to follow. that's enough to show he was the aggressor here. >> natalee jackson, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. well maybe the biggest unanswered question in this case, will george zimmerman take the stand? my next guest has a prospective on that. robert, good to see you. >> nice to see you. >> what is the answer to that question, you think?
>> let me give you the background. first, it starts with jury selection. let me ask you, piers. do you consider yourself a fair person? >> yeah. >> and as a fair person before you make a decision you like to hear both sides of the story. >> yeah. >> and i take it, you would like to hear my client, mr. zimmerman, tell his story? would that be true. >> that would be true. >> well, let me ask you something, while we're talking here, you're a professional but most people who would not be a professional, if i'm asking you questions on television, would you think you would be a little nervous? >> i mean, wouldn't be but i understand having interviewed many, many people that most people are quite nervous. >> okay. and as quite nervous, do you think people interpret somebody has being nervous as perhaps not being truthful? >> or being overly defensive. >> or being overly defensive. >> and for that reason, there is nothing to gain by putting zimmerman on the stand given we have five different effective statements from him? >> so, i would first make sure
that every one of the jurors understood that the decision to take the stand is going to be my decision, and the reasons why i wouldn't have somebody take the stand, just being nervous, perhaps that alone would make you think maybe he's not being truthful. >> yeah. >> maybe he's not being forthright. on the other hand, we established the fact that people want to hear both sides of the story. so then i would talk to the jurors and say in a simple case you get to do that. that's the way fair justice happens but only money is at stake in a criminal case, the burden of proof is on the prosecution and it never ever changes. so we're not required to do anything. >> is there anything to be gained, robert, by zimmerman taking the stand given the amount of material from his own mouth that we've already heard? >> yes. >> what is that? >> the jury can see him, look
him in the eye and that's the best way to make a determination if you're believing that person was actually in fear for his life. >> how much could the defense's decision on this process and indeed, george zimmerman's rest potentially on trayvon's family taking the stand? because that could be a very powerful moment. it could be the moment when the balance, if you'd like, in this trial switches back to the prosecution case, could that be a tipping point for them to say we've got to have george up there? >> you know, it is so hard to evaluate. obviously, when the family members testify and the defense then gets a chance to cross examine, what i would probably do is say, other than offering my sympathies, i have no further questions of you. >> right, because you can't win a cross-examination of a grieving mother -- >> or of any relative of a victim. that just is not going to work. so now the defense is really
faced with a dilemmas. zimmerman has, in fact, testified. he's testified on the video. he's testified on the audio. he's been interviewed by the police who gave their version of his testimony. so the jury at least knows his story. it would be icing on the cake if they heard it from him, but there is tremendous risk, and that is anxiety, nervousness, inconsistencies, you say something a little bit different than you said it before, and the other thing is that chair is the most difficult chair in the world to sit in. i don't care how good a witness you are, you could be a cop that has testified -- >> i gave evidence once in a court case in britain. it was terrifying. five hours on the stand with a top lawyer coming at me like a 10-ton truck and even though i had a lot of experience in courtrooms as a reporter, i found it a terrifying experience.
>> and that's true with everybody, and you're a professional, and most people get up there and they are scarred. >> what is your view of how the prosecution has done so far? a lot of lawyers i've been hearing and mark geragos said they have been so bad they want to throw the murder charge so they can't get it and get manslaughter. >> here is what happens in these cases, the prosecution generally over charges in a case that's a high-profile case, and the other thing is they over try the case. they call many witnesses that are totally unnecessary. they call a witness to tell you that if you hit your head on the ground, you may bleed. that insults the jury. >> have they ever played the hand, have they overcharged? >> i think they have overcharged. >> really should have been a manslaughter charge. >> absolutely. >> would have had more chance of winning. >> i haven't heard any evidence whatsoever that there is malice
on the part of zimmerman. >> what about what he says these punks, these a-holes, he's identifying martin who he doesn't know at all as an a-hole punk, isn't that malice? >> malice is a legal term. it's not a generic term and legal malice is you have ill will towards someone. >> isn't that ill will? >> it could be interpreted as that. again, you have the reasonable doubt standard that you have to get over. could it be? yes. >> without -- see here is my point. without george zimmerman looking at trayvon martin and thinking a-hole, f-ing punk and so on and the police telling him not to follow him, he's a busy body neighborhood watch, he's got his gun, he wanted to be a cop. he didn't quite make it. this is a moment and he's had
quite of few of them. he didn't need to do any of that stuff but in his head he's thinking a-hole punk. i keep come pg back to that. racial profiling or just profiling this is a bad person, he's still coming at him with malicious intent, isn't he? >> i don't know but that's going to be the question. >> is that a key question? >> that's a key question and that's what the lawyers are going to be arguing in their closing argument and that's what the jury will sit on ex and decide. they will decide two things, they will decide whether as a matter of law there was malice and whether or not they believe zimmerman's testimony that it was self-defense. >> do you believe him? >> i haven't heard him testify directly -- >> from what you've seen in the statements and interviews? >> yes. >> we're in los angeles. a lot of people fearing that if there is no conviction at all here, there could be race riots
and so on. do you feel it's as a motive as say the o.j. simpson case? >> i don't want to compare anything to the simpson case and i don't really talk about the simpson case. this is a highly strung divided case. it's divided among african americans and caucasians, unfortunately, and i just hope that people believe in the jury system, that they don't judge people on moral guilt, they judge people on legal guilt and if they do, and they believe in our system of justice, then hopefully we'll have a peaceful ending of this. >> final question robert and briefly, the stand your ground law which actually hasn't been used in the end in this case but could have been used at one stage, does that have anyplace really in a modern civilized
society? is it just not an excuse for every gang banger thug in america to say hey, i was just acting in self-defense? >> we're going to see the opposite side of that in the oscar pistorius case where in south africa you cannot use deadly force unless deadly force is being used upon you. >> right. >> so i agree with you. >> robert shipero thank you. >> thank you. the state is closing in at the end of the case. what does the jury thing? egypt's president is out but is it a coup? we'll go live to cairo.
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all i can say is it has worked well for us. the prosecution is almost done with the case, did they convince the jury with zimmerman's guilt. we bring there our guest, host of judge alex. welcome back to you judge al len lex. >> thank you. >> they have a proterrible trump card, the highly emotion testimony of both trayvon martin's mother and brother. how significant could that be in tipping the scales back in the favor of the prosecution case? >> i think it can be significant in the sense that it's going to be very emotional testimony. i no doubt it's going to have a huge impact on the jury to hear trayvon's mother testifying. i'm sure she will probably break down as you imagine.
my mother actually lost two sons, so i know how horrible and tragic it is to lose a child, but will it add any elements to the case? no, it will not add eneloqueany elements. the ill will, spite, hate, those worders uttered will not do it in florida because they have to be tied to the act that resulted in the death, and there is this huge intervening cause here, which is that fight. so i don't see them getting second-degree murder through, and i don't see the elements for manslaughter, but what it could do is motivate a jury that otherwise wasn't going to convict to say you know what, this is to tragic even though they haven't proven the case, we won't go with murder, but we won't walk them but go with manslaughter and compromise -- >> tell me this. >> that's another question. >> looking at this dispassionately, looking at manslaughter conviction and got two to three years in jail i
might stand back and go that's a fair conclusion to a very complex case. i don't think he's a cold-blooded murderer. but at the same time i don't think he should get away with killing a 17-year-old unarmed boy. is that possible? because from what i've been hearing so far, if he's convicted of manslaughter he could get 10 to 15 years because of trayvon's age. >> i tend to believe it actually would be -- could be a lot more than that. i mean, what happens is under florida law, manslaughter is a second degree felony punishment up to 15 years, but if the person is under 18 and it was actually -- this was actually charged as a crime against a minor, then it automatically goes up to 30 years as aggravated manslaughter and also it can be enhanced to 30 year because of use as a firearm. i believe he would face a maximum of 30, which would mean the minimum might be, the minimum might be 10, 12 years. i would have to calculate it. this judge may give him 20, 25.
i don't know what she's thinking. >> right. so it makes it all different. it makes it different whether he's convicted of second-degree murder or manslaughter under that situation. so it really is all or nothing for george zimmerman, isn't it? >> if it is enhanced the way i think it will be, they could win the battle and lose the war, absolutely. >> would you put him on the stand, particularly if the trayvon family members testimony is heart rendering and sense the jury had been moved by him? >> i don't see any percentage in that. the jury heard his testimony. the -- you're just going to subject him to cross-examination on the inconsistencies and there are inconsistencies but they are really minor. i press anyone to give a significant inconsistency here that sets aside his self-defense claim, and you run the risk of him looking nervous and being prer steved as a liar. when you look at the whole case, the inconsistencies in the
state's prosecution has benefitted in creating a doubt. the problem is that's what the defense is usually trying to do, create a doubt. the prosecution has to prove it beyond every reasonable doubt. and they are just so far short of that standard. >> i mean, the real problem i've been saying this now for quite sometime as have others is that the key witness, the one who could really answer all the unanswered questions is dead, is trayvon martin. you take -- >> absolutely. >> -- him out of the equation because he can't give evidence and you're left with zimmerman's word of what happened. >> that's not the prosecution's fault and nobody's fault. the prosecution is playing the hand they were dealt. i read an article asking if the prosecution is intentionally throwing this case. i guarantee they aren't throwing the case. many times we see cases where the prosecution believes they know a crime was committed and
they don't have the evidence. that's why it looks like a bad case and the prosecution is ineffective because this was a case that probably was not brought for the right reason. they knew they couldn't get a conviction, and then somebody thought better and said we have to prosecute this case. >> final question and briefly, judge alex, we're expecting potentially a decision maybe as early as next week or early part of the week after. what do you think that will be? >> if i was looking at it from a pure legal standpoint, i would say acquittal. from an emotional standpoint after hearing from his mother, perhaps the jury will reach a compromise verdict. they aren't supported to do that. if the evidence isn't there, it's not there but it certainly happens that they do things like that, so it could be a manslaught manslaughter. i think if it comes back with the second-degree murder, if the evidence doesn't change in the next day and let's face it, the fat lady may not be singing but clearing her throat at this point, there isn't much more to put on. i just don't see a second-degree
murder conviction being upheld on appeal and maybe not even a manslaughter for what we've seen so far. >> judge alex, as always, compelling, thank you very much indeed. when we come back after the break, a new panel of experts to give their opinion on what they think will happen in a gripping case. we are all reflections of the people who came before us. the good they did inspires us, prepares us and guides us. at new york life, everything we do is to help you keep good going. to take a centrum silver multivitamin every day. i told him, sure. can't hurt, right? and now today, i see this in the news. once again, centrum silver was chosen by researchers
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do that. >> the layoff and a rare show of emotion from george zimmerman but what did the jury think of him? i want to ask my experts, the attorney for the prosecution's star witness rachel jeantel and brian copeland, the host of the brian copeland show in san francisco and author of not a genuine black men. welcome. gloria, may i wish you a happy birthday. >> thank you very much. >> 26 again. >> thank you. >> start with you robert, because your client was a key witness here. we're approaching the end of the prosecution case. many people, legal people criticizing the prosecution for just not establishing hard enough george zimmerman's murderous intent. >> well, i think it's very important. first of all, the prosecution has an uphill battle with regard to presenting the evidence sufficient to establish the elements necessary for a conviction. let's look at it, first of all,
that way. with regard to the evidence that has been presented, taking away or not taking away from what has been presented today when the jury has to consider the element of ill will, spite, evil intent, they need to go to the tapes that were played to try to get into the mind of george zimmerman, and so they had the good start from that point, you know, and tried to figure out what is it he was thinking about what he first decided to confront trayvon martin, and you've had -- he's had a number of statements that have been introduced into evidence. so they need to go through the statements and decide what it is they believed he was thinking about when he first confronted trayvon and if they believe he had an evil intent at the time they confronted him, they may be able to meet the threshold with regard to the element, sufficient to get a second-degree murder conviction in this case, if not, then they will be looking at possibly a man slaupgter conviction. >> okay. if you're watching this, lots of tweets about this. tweet me at piers morgan.
give me your views. it's a contentious case. gloria, the point i keep coming back to, i don't think george zimmerman set out to murder trayvon martin, i just don't. i think no evidence suggests he did but i see enough evidence he saw this young man and thought he's trouble, and i'm going to deal with him in someway. had he not done that, trayvon martin would not be dead. doesn't there have to be accountability for that? >> not necessarily in the criminal justice system. that's the problem. that's not sufficient to convict, and even if he followed him, and today, captain carter testified someone from the prosecution who ultimately testified with some evidence or testimony that could be very compelling for the defense that even if a person is an aggressor initially and let's just assume for purposes of discussion, that in fact, george zimmerman was the aggressor, that something can happen and that the person against whom he is aggressing in
this case trayvon martin, if you believe what some of the testimony is, then it's still -- he, the aggressor could possibly under some circumstances claim self-defense. he could, as a matter of law claim that. so that would not be sufficient even if he were the agrandsons so -- the aggressor. >> right. let me turn to you brian copeland, you wrote a powerful book and talking about growing up in california and being stopped repeatedly by police officers. and this goes to the other part of this case that divide sod much opinion. in his mind, george zimmerman saw a young black boy, young man, walking around and thought trouble. he profiled him just as trouble. we know that from the way he described him in the call to police. in the same time you have what
tr trayvon martin said, he was a creepy ass cracker and you have fear and dis trust. you grew up with a lot of fear and dis trust. tell me about that. >> i grew up in california which borders open to the south and we moved there in the 1970s and it was 99.9% white. white flight designation from oakland and other cities in the area as they were becoming more and more diverse. the problem is in communities like that, the face of crime is young and black and so that being the case, you are a suspect by walking down the street. i think that's the fundamental question we have to answer in terms of the verdict for this case and that is can a young african american male walk down the street in a neighborhood where he quote unquote doesn't belong without being looked at as a suspect. if you can kill somebody if you're afraid of them, there are a lot of people that look at the basic crime of being young and black so they are afraid of you
from the moment they set eyes on you. if that's the defense we are in real, real trouble. >> yaeeah, i do agree with a lo of that. i agree there is something fund mentally wrong with the justice system that allows george zimmerman to play the cop he always wanted to be but wasn't, and to act like a vigilante, go after this guy unharmed minding his own business, had no harmful intent that we can see at all and ends up dead. i just don't think that you can be completely unaccountable for that. there has to be some form of justice for trayvon martin, doesn't there? >> absolutely. you have to look at the fact, as well, george zimmerman has lied. george zimmerman has lied. he says trayvon martin reached for his gun. he had to break the grasp off the gun and there is no dna of martin on the gun. if his head was banged against the concrete 25 times why did it
take two band aids to take care of the wounds. he got out of the car and supposedly put away his cell phone and attacked by trayvon, yet the phone records show that trayvon was on the phone for a full two minutes after zimmermann hung up his phone. on top of that, if you look at the interview he gave to hannity, no remorse, no contrition. he claims it was god's will. there has got to be some kind of accountability here. you can't make it open season on young people, particularly young african american males you're your afraid. >> okay. let me bring in gloria. in comes back to your point we're talking about a criminal action here in a criminal court, that is a different ball game, even in a civil action, right? >> absolutely. of course, it is absolutely tragic there is a 17-year-old who is dead. i mean, there is no dispute about that. the problem is there are legal standards and the challenges for
the defense to prove that george zimmerman had a reasonable belief that he was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm. it's not enough that many african american teenagers, in fact, are targeted sometimes because of their race in certain parts of their country, this country. it has to be proven that in this case, george zimmerman did not act in a way that is going to constitute legally self-defense. that's the challenge. >> let me bring back rod, final word from you, if i may n. a funny way, i would put george zimmerman on the stand if i was the defense particularly if we have emotional heart felt testimony from his family on friday because zimmerman could put up a good case for how his life has been destroyed and he could explain to a jury, look at them straight in the eye why he did what he did over again and that in itself could be powerful
and help him. >> well, let me just say if i was representing mr. zimmerman, i would not put him on the stand. one, he has given a number on statements that in some parts have been inconsistent and i've heard so far a couple attorneys say that it is their decision whether the client takes the stand and testifies or not and that is absolutely untrue. in every case, it is the defendant who makes a final decision as to whether or not he testifies. in state court, if he wants to testify and his lawyers stops him from testifying, that rule will face an emotion to set aside that conviction based on ineffects of assistance of counsel -- >> i would agree. >> that would be facing a motion which would be referred to as post conviction motion filed under 2255. what most do when the defendant decides he does not want to testify, he will or she will colloquy the defendant to be satisfied that it is the defendant who is making the ultimate decision not to testify
and not the attorney. >> and it should be -- >> but as a representative -- >> i agree with that. i agree with that and i think it's just from the defense's point of view, i think it will be far, far too risky to do it. here are two reasons why george zimmerman should not testify. one, joe did aridi arias. o.j. simple sson, they found he liable for the death of nicole brown simpson and ron gold man. if you do a risk analysis, risk versus benefit, generally it comes out that the defendant should not testify. >> thank you-all very much, indeed. when we come back, breaking news on the revelation in i giequipm.
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we have ben live in cairo. let me start with you. my question really is what on earth is going on in egypt? who is in charge? >> they are very much the strongest institution in the country, and they laid down the law 4 8 hours ago to mohamed morsy and the opposition saying if you don't get your act together, you're out and we're in and last night we heard a speech from mohamed morsy making it clear he wouldn't give in to the option. he trifled with it and we see the result now. >> ivan watson, we have the first democratically elected president depose in a year by what many are calling a coup and
others are saying it's inappropriate but where does it leave dem democracy in egypt th even celebrated in the spring? >> that's a good question. certainly the electoral process has been shaken, if not smashed, because now the question comes up the next president who comes in, if people get frustrated because there are fuel shortages or some other complaint, can they just come out into the streets and protest and topple that person when they get sick of them? that is an argument the people firing fireworks here behind us, they don't seem to really want to hear that when you mention the word coup to them, many of them get very angry and they insist that this is not a coup, that the army is simply carrying out the will of the people who got very frustrated at undemocratic moves that were being made by the president
morsy himself. of course, his backers are very much calling this a military coup, and there are some signs to suggest it is because we're getting reports that the military and the security services are shutting down the muslim brotherhood media outlets, and rounding up top officials in the muslim brotherhood, as well as mohamed morsy himself. that looks an awful lot like the symptoms of a coup. >> right, i mean, ben, one of the reasons they don't want to say it's a coup, is there is billions of dollars u.s. dollars at stake that may or may not depend whether people interpret it like that. president obama said the united states is monitoring the very fluid situation in egypt. we believe ultimately the future of egypt can only be determined by the egyptian people and i've also directed the relative departments and agencies to review the implications under u.s. law for our assistance under the government of egypt.
so a clear warning i would say unless people are careful how this non-coup plays out. the funding, the billions of dollars dollars from america could be at risk. >> i don't think that funding is at risk because u.s. interests are better served by the military then by a muslim brotherhood president, a president who has come out and said some very embarrassing things in the past. for instance, saying jews are the offspring of apes. that is embarrassing for the united states. keep in mind, the military has a very long relationship with the united states going back to the '70s. many of the senior members of the egyptian officer core received training in the united states on first name basis with american counter parts and therefore it's unlikely this relationship is going to be rupp
turp -- ruptured by whatever happened today, coup, people's couple and the united states invested billions and billions of dollars dollars in the egyptian military that won't let it go because of what happened today doesn't fit into their dictionary. >> ivan, the problems with iraq and afghanistan is that whoever takes charge when we try and implement any kind of western style democracy refuses to do business with the rivals, and until you have a more inclusive government in somewhere like egypt, you'll have this problem reoccurring all the time. >> well and that's one of the big complaints about mohamed morsy during his short year in office. many of the critics, in fact, one egyptian i spoke with today said he voted for morsy and now supports this move to topple morsy, the big criticism they had is hey, we thought this guy
could come in and be a president for all egyptians but instead focused on consolidating power and reaching out only to people within the muslim brotherhood and not crossing lines to other society. it's interesting when the top military general made the announcement that morsy was going to be replaced as president and the constitution would be suspended, he kind of dressed up that presentation by inviting the head of the coptic church to sit alongside him and one of the chief liberal voices, the noble peace prize winner and head of the international atomic agency. that was a military effort to appear more inclusive and reach out to other sectors of society while making this really moe n
mentous announcement. >> it's a crushing blow to the muslim brotherhood and deeply for them. the members are rounded up and officials have been rounded up and arrested and so on in this non-coup but they won't take this lying down and doing nothing. there must be a real threat of violence, islamic violence perhaps by way of retribution for the way they have been treated. >> certainly. that is a definite possibility. now back in the 1970s, the muslim brotherhood did officially renounce violence but the danger is, as has always been the case, is that there are splintered groups that are dissatisfied with the traditional leadership. so we saw in egypt, the creation the offsprings of islamic gee hod and involved in the 1981 assassination and more than a
decade-long urban so there's a definite danger that they're going to say we've been excluded from politics, but our leaders were jailed. our media has been shut down, and this system isn't going to work for us. so we're going to destroy the system. i think that probably the majority of members of the muslim brotherhood may learn some lessons from this bitter experience. but there are definitely some members who are going to see our leadership was too moderate, and it's time to take a harder approach and directly challenge power here in egypt and challenge it with violence. >> thank you both very much out there. stay safe out there. thank you for your reporting. next, extreme weather for the fourth of july.
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for many across america, independence day would bring a different kind of fireworks with thunderstorms and heavy downpours. samantha moore is tracking the weather for us. how bad is it going to be? >> it's already been bad today across much of the deep south, piers. you can see it on the water vapor slight imagery where you see the whites and the pinks and greens, where we have tropical moisture being imported from the gulf coast up into the ohio valley. high pressure is building in from bermuda, this is known as the bermuda high, bringing all that tropical moisture across the deep south and up towards
the great lakes. also what's happened here is kind of good news for the east coast and the northeast. drying out a little bit as high pressure is starting to build in to where you live. so that means fewer showers and fewer thunderstorms. you are finally getting a break. but now in the cross hairs is the atlanta area. we're expecting friday all across the region. and into that middle atlantic, these are improving in d.c. but you can see it's moving back across west virginia and the ohio valley. that's where we'll see the showers and thunderstorms. peach tree road race is tomorrow morning. we'll end up seeing heavy rain at that time. they haven't called the race yet. they're going to brave it out. during fireworks, still unsettled in the deep south, continuing into friday. so we have concerns about flooding and flash flood
warnings across atlanta and north georgia. and expected to see this through friday. so we'll be keeping our eyes on the flooding conditions here the next 48 hours. remember, it only takes 18 inches of rain to move a car, an suv. so these are the threats here. high threat in the pink, that is flash flooding and river flooding. if you live in a flood zone, be apprised of the situation. we do have a threat from lightning, as well. so we'll be watching for the possible lightning threat. as far as tornadoes, a low threat. this is a tropical air mass, so if we do see tornadoes, they will be weak ones. high pressure is building in towards the west, drying out parts of the east coast. out in the west, sit firecracker hot, piers, with the heat on here. in fact, i almost can't even talk, my mouth is dry as i look at these heat advisories. that is just going to continue and stretch across the country as we head into the next few days. so that ridge of high pressure is going to broaden.
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♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ that's all for us tonight. wishing you a very happy independence day. obviously, we brits do not celebrate july the fourth with quite the same enthusiasm. but i wish you a very good time any way. anderson cooper starts right now. prosecution getting ready to call its final witness. the defense prepares to begin calling theirs. good evening. welcome to this "ac 360" special report, "self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial." the trial is heading into its final stretch. the prosecution calling what could be its next to last witness today. a dna expert and trayvon martin's mother expected to take the stand on friday before the prosecution rests. another big day in a trial that's had nothing but big days so